For many people, the words "Nicole Kidman erotic thriller" are enough to get them to the theater. It's me, I'm one of those people. Babygirl, the second English feature film from Dutch director Halina Reijn, is about a workplace affair between Romy (Nicole) and her intern Samuel (Harris Dickinson) that goes expectedly awry given that it is... a workplace affair between a CEO and an intern. But under the sexy exterior, the movie is a study of female desire, shame, and what it takes to actually ask for what you want in the bedroom.
Halina has been exploring this theme in one way or another since before she was even a writer, in her days on the stage as an actress. And in her first feature films, the idea of power, sex, and how they intertwine were huge themes. When she got the opportunity to write an original movie for A24, she wanted to get into it even more. She spoke with Cosmopolitan about how one experience with a friend inspired the movie, why Romy and Samuel never have a real conversation about consent, and what she wants people to learn from the film.
Where did this story begin? Like, what was the first kernel of an idea that became Babygirl?
I think it started when I used to be a stage actress. I was constantly playing with power and sexuality and surrender, but always through a male gaze. And I was very inspired by these plays, but all of my female characters try to liberate themselves and all end up dead. I just thought, I want to create female characters that try to liberate themselves but stay alive. So that was how I started to become a writer.
For Babygirl, I wanted to make a story about if it is possible as a woman to love all the different layers of yourself, and not just the ones that you're okay with presenting to the outside world. The ugly, the weak, the flawed, the shameful, the embarrassing. I wanted to create a comedy of manners, a fable about consent, sex, power and feminism.
And also I heard from a friend who was married for 25 years that she never had an orgasm with her husband, ever. And I caught myself reacting like, no, what? Jesus, how is that possible? And then I went home and I was like, what kind of reaction was that? Because I have my own struggles with orgasming and thinking it takes too long. And then I found out that almost every woman has stories, has faked an orgasm, has a weird relationship with her body. So I thought all of those things would make a great movie.
How do you wish you had reacted to that friend?
I wish I wouldn't have reacted so surprised because I think that made her feel very alone. I think I should have said, yeah, I get it, I have faked an orgasm. I always think it takes too long. And I called her and we talked a lot. I said, I'm so sorry that I reacted like that back then. It's such a weird kept secret. And I think women don't even talk to each other about it. I'm shy. I don't like to talk about things like that.
I think with sex in particular, people just want to feel like whatever their experience is, it's normal. It's nice that Romy gets to explore these really deep desires in a way that's not shaming her.
The core of my film is when she says to her husband, I want to be normal. I just want to be what you like. I want to be the woman you like. And that's how I feel every day. And I think that everybody feels that. Everybody thinks they're an alien. Everybody thinks they're an imposter. And especially women. We are not like, yeah, this is who I am. You better take it. We're like, oh, my God. I need to morph myself into something that is normal and that other people like.
I was watching an interview you did with Nicole where she said that directors hold all the power because they choose the actors. But I'm sure part of you is like, no, you're Nicole Kidman, you hold all the power! I'm wondering how that manifests in your work.
When I sent her the draft of Babygirl, I couldn't breathe from the moment I pressed send until she called me and she was like, I want to do this. In her eyes the director holds the power, which is an amazing concept, of course. That is how she behaves. But when she told me, I want to do everything that is on the page, I don't want to change anything, that's something that I could have never dreamed of.
Harris Dickinson is so good opposite her, too. How did you find somebody who was going to be able to go toe-to-toe with Nicole?
After Nicole said, this is my role and I'm going to do it, I woke up in a total panic because of that. I was like, which young guy is ever going to be able to stand next to her and not be totally intimidated, let alone dominate her? That week I had to go to this premiere and I was kind of annoyed, it was Triangle of Sadness, because I had no idea what it was. And then I went and I was like, who is this creature?
He has the perfect combination of being incredibly vulnerable and boyish and then at the same time having this confidence and this cockiness and this old-fashioned masculinity that I love, and that you can't fake. I had two meetings with him, and he had a lot of questions. But every question he asked me, it only was a confirmation of how amazing he would be in the part.
And we need to talk about Antonio Banderas, who plays Romy's husband. I know him as such a sex symbol. I loved him in this role where you invert those expectations and he doesn't know how to pleasure his wife.
We really wanted a husband that would be so hot, so masculine, so it wouldn't be about, oh, he cannot dominate her. That's not the problem. The problem is that she doesn't dare to ask for what she wants and needs. Just like all of us women often don't dare. We're just like, no, as long as he's having a good time, I'm aroused by his arousal. I also needed someone who could be equal to her. I couldn't believe when he said yes. You will see a lot of male actors, especially of his status, that will not play supporting to a female movie star.
What kind of research did you do on dom/sub relationships before writing the movie?
I wanted the kink to only be a metaphor so that everybody could relate to it and bring their own kink into the theater, if you will. I didn't want it to go into spaces where it was too extreme. When I went into therapy, like, 20 years ago, it was considered a disease to have S&M fantasies. And that is why I was ashamed. I thought I was an alien. Does it come from trauma? Are you born with a kink? Is it a male concept? So I had all these questions. The recent research really shows that, of course, it can be a combination of all of those things, but it's just a kink, and it's totally fine. And new generations like yours are very much more open about it and are like, what is the issue? As long as there's consent, as long as there's respect, as long as there's a conversation and communication, anything goes.
My own opinion about this kind of power dynamic is that if you suppress it, if you say, I don't have those fantasies. That's when it becomes dangerous. If she would have sat Antonio Banderas down and been really honest before the movie started, the movie wouldn't have to take place. But instead, she wants him to be a psychic. That's not how life works.
Romy and Samuel struggle to talk about what the boundaries are and never really have a frank conversation about consent. Did you ever contemplate including a more explicit conversation in the film?
No, because my movie is a warning. We're witnessing two people who are not doing it totally right. I did want them to try to figure it out, but they're both so inexperienced. They have no experience in the sub/dom world. My movie is a fable, it's not a documentary. When he says, I can make one phone call and you lose everything. And then he says, are you turned on when I say that? They're using the whole concept of consent as an aphrodisiac to get aroused. The fact that there's something at stake makes it more arousing. Whereas I would say, don't do that. Don't actually jeopardize things in your own life. Please. And also don't do it in the workplace, find somebody elsewhere. In real life, safely do it and ask consent and make a book of rules or whatever you want to do, as long as it's respectful. But this is a movie.
They are using the danger for their sexual kink, the risk of actually losing something. And that is, of course, interesting for us to watch, but not advisable in real life to do that ever, because you're going to hurt each other and you're going to hurt other people.
You mentioned in another interview that this film gave you a tool to talk about the orgasm gap and sex generally. What have your conversations with people have been like after they've seen the film?
All these women come up to me and they don't even speak about the movie. They just speak about their own stories. Or they say, I'm so relieved, I feel less alone. I'm so happy that I can take my girlfriends to this movie and then we can have a conversation. Some women get really angry because so much comes up for them, it's triggering in a positive way, but it's like an awakening.
I'm so ashamed of my own sexuality and I'm so shy and I'm wrestling with it a lot. So I could never have dreamed of such a broad, open reception of the movie. I thought it would be much more niche. I think that women are ready. Women are like, yes, let's discuss these things finally. That's what movies and stories are for. You want to watch it and then talk about it and say, like, so what would I do? Or how can we incorporate this in a healthy way? How can I embrace my kink without shame? And how can I bring it up with my partner?
